Remembering the Mills
Oral Histories
Orvie Shaw
Excerpts from an Interview by Paul S. Shaw, MD.
Date Oct 7, 1991
Place: His house, North Road Salisbury
Published in They Said It In Salisbury by Paul S. Shaw, MD
References to the Charles Shaw Mill
Paul Shaw- “Wasn’t that known as the Shaw Mill Pond?”
Orvie- “Oh, that was right at the foot of Ben Rowell’s hill. Charles Shaw had a saw mill there. He owned it. I’ve been there when they were running it. It was water powered. He sawed all kinds of lumber for people.”
Paul Shaw- “How about clapboards and shingles?”
Orvie- “Not that I know of. He never did. He could have, but I never knew of it. ‘Course we used to have a shingle mill at home, and we’d saw out our own shingles.”
Paul Shaw- “How was that powered?”
Orvie- “Gasoline engine. ‘One lungers’ they used to call ’em. And the best shingles we ever made was out of willow wood. Put ’em on a roof and they’d bend up if they got wet, but boy, they would last. I best some of those shingles were on a roof 40-50 years.”
Charles Shaw- “Never did any clapboard work or shingles that I know of.”
Paul Shaw- “There was another mill down near the present site of the dump where they made seats for chairs. Did you ever hear of that?”
Orvie- “Yes, there used to be a chair factory there. I never saw it, but there was a chair factory there.”
Paul Shaw- “Do you have any idea what they used for power?”
Orvie- “I figured they probably used power of out of the river. There’s no dam. I always wondered how they go water.”
*Paul Shaw- “Ed Sawyer and I talked about that, Actually what they made was seats for chairs. They finished the rest of the chairs down at the prison.”
*Orvie- “Paul, speaking about the prison, they used to come around with a horse drawn-buggy, like a hayrack, full of chairs. They come up to the house several times, and you could buy those chairs for fifty cents apiece. ‘Could buy a dozen at a time. And that’s where they care from, the prison. But I didn’t know the seats came from…”
*Paul Shaw- “That’s what Ed Sawyer said, they made the seats for those chairs. We bought some of those chairs” (when we lived in Warner)
Orvie- “Bowback chairs they use to call them. Today them chairs are expensive. They were nice made chairs, very nice. I used to have a grain salesman come up here from Penacook, Dick Elswoth, you probably knew him. He used to work down at the prison when they were making chairs.”
*Note Jan 2 2015: In today’s conversation with Ed Sawyer, the exact product of the Sawyer “chair mill” was clarified. They were oak stock for the backs (rungs) of chairs. In addition upon inspection of the site which sits on a bluff above the Blackwater River it was clear to Ed that using water power in a mechanical way (mechanical/water wheels) was not possible as a source of power” – Rose Cravens See Power from Hot Water)
Norma Lovejoy
Excerpts from an Interview by Paul S. Shaw, MD.
Date Feb 5,1991
Place: Salisbury Home of the Lovejoys
Published in They Said It In Salisbury by Paul S. Shaw, MD
Discussing Ray Prince Sr. and references to the Prince Sawmill, Beaverdam Brook Sawmill, Chair factory
Norma- “He was killed in a lumber accident.”
Paul Shaw- “Logs fell off the side of a truck and crushed him. His son, Chub was killed in the Battle of the Buldge.”
Norma- “Ray, his father, died after that. Chubby was dead before his father was killed. Bud (Ray Jr.) runs the mill and does other kind of work.
But they moved the mill. When Ray Sr. was there the mill was down on the river. Then they had to move it up with the water pollution board, stuff that they have now..”
Paul Shaw- “The mill was there in West Salisbury across from where the Chamberlains live now. It used water power from the river. They sawed logs into boards. I don’t think they ever did clapboards or shingles, but there was another mill on the other side of the river at one time that did make clapboards and shingles.”
Norma- “In my family, way back, they had a shingle mill on the Dimond Farm. They had a shingle mill that ran on water power from the brook that runs down there.”
Paul Shaw- “What brook is that?”
Norma- “I don’t know what the name of it is. (Beaverdam Brook) It runs down back and across 127 through what used to be our land and down part of Harry Prince’s (Ida’s father) land, then down into Boscawen and then out to the Merrimack.”
Paul Shaw- “Freddy Adams told me that there were two mills on that brook at one time, one was your father’s.”
(Note 2015: There seems to be some confusion as to the location of the “Beaverdam Brook” mills. The Fellows mill is located on the stream running by the Fellows Graveyard and was known as Beaverdam Brook by some. There is another small stream that crosses 127 closer to Route 4, closer to the Dimond farmhouse and east of the Fellows Graveyard.)
Norma- “It was his great uncle I think, that used to run the shingle mill. There was another mill , a chair factory, beyond where the dump is now, that the Sawyer family ran. I don’t know whether it was Al Sawyers father or his grandfather that, a chair factory. That was down off South Road just before you ge to the bridge. You turn off to the left and down in there.”
Paul Shaw- “What did they use for power?”
Norma- “I think they used water. It was almost down to the Blackwater River. I think its on the Blackwater if you drive out there. You can still drive out there where the mill was. Ed (Sawyer) could tell you more about it than I. He must have heard his family tell about it.”
Anna Moxley Mahoney DeAngelis
Excerpts from an Interview by Paul S. Shaw, MD.
Date November 17, 1992
Place: Her home, Chichester NH
Published in They Said It In Salisbury by Paul S. Shaw, MD
References to the Prince Sawmill:
Paul Shaw- “Where was your mother (Iva Prince) born?” Was she born in Salisbury?”
Anna- “Yes.”
Paul Shaw- “And who were her parents?”
Anna- “My grandmother Martha J Prince and my grandfather Charles Prince.”
Paul Shaw- “Was he the Charles Prince that ran the sawmill?”
Anna- “Yes, he ran the sawmill in West Salisbury.”
Paul Shaw- “And when did he die, before 1900?”
Anna- “No I was a small child when he died. That would out it about 1914-1915. I just barely remember that he had one leg. he has and accident apparently at the sawmill.”
Paul Shaw- “When did his son Ray Prince (her uncle) start taking….was he running the mill then, as soon as Charles quite running the mill Ray took it over?”
Anna- “Yes”.
——–
Paul Shaw- “Who were some of the interesting people that were living there in Salisbury at the time? Bud Prince’s father was running the mill, what did you remember about Ray?”
Anna- “Uncle Ray,yes…I remember a very bad accident he had, it took his life, really. I don’t know if you know anything about stacking logs, but he had this pick, pulling down some of the logs, and the whole pile came down on top of him. It wasn’t long after that the he died. He died in the Franklin Hospital.”
Paul Shaw- “What other things do you remember about him that were more pleasant?”
Anna- “He and Bernard Dunlap and Henry Stevens were part of the National Guard outfit that was in Franklin who were taken into the army (WW1), and they went overseas together. I think Ray and Bernard were both machine gunners. Ray came out of it relatively intact. Bernard Dunlap was gassed, and he had chronic lung problems the rest of his life.
I stayed with Aunt Ruth and Uncle Ray quite a bit. Of course I just about worshiped my Uncle Ray. I thought he was terrific. We used to go fishing and he actually was the one that taught me how to swim. But I was scared to death.”
Paul Shaw
Excerpts from an Interview by Paul Fenton Jr.
Date December 1992
Place: West Salisbury, Salisbury NH
Published in They Said It In Salisbury by Paul S. Shaw, MD
Paul Shaw- “Many of the Shaws lived on Raccoon Hill, which became known as Shaw Hill, and the school there was the Shaw Hill School.
Referring to the Shaw Grist Mill:
My grandfather moved off the hill when he and his brother bought the Gookin Grist Mill in West Salisbury. He lived near the mill, then in 1883, the same year he was elected to the legislature, he bought the house where Pete Merkes now lives. He lived there until he died in 1921.
The rest of the Shaws spread out over Salisbury and Andover. Most of George’s descendants now live over on North Road”.
Paul Fenton- “What happened to the mill?”
Paul Shaw- “The dam went out in the early twenties. The mill was empty from the early 20’s and gradually deteriorated. The roof blew off, but it was during the depression and Dad didn’t have the money or the inclination to fix it up . One night in 1935 the whole building collapsed with a noise that woke up the neighbors. The only thing I salvaged was a few wide boards for a ping pong table.
Someone stole the mill stones. I think there were three. One was an imported French stone especial for grinding flour. Someone with an auto tow car lifted them out and made off with them. Part of the foundation of the grist mill is still standing, but there is no evidence of the sawmill that was just to the right of it, upstream.
According to Brad Dorsey, wo researched the mill back to the original grant, there was a complicated agreement on the deeds of the two mills that spelled out that the grist mill had first call on the water for power and that the sawmill could only take water for power when the water level was so many inches from the top of the dam or higher.”
Daniel “Charley” Pratt
Excerpts from an Interview by Paul S. Shaw, MD.
Date: Nov 1,1988
Place: West Salisbury
Published in They Said It In Salisbury by Paul S. Shaw, MD
References to the Shaw Grist Mill in West Salisbury, Kearsarge area sawmill:
Paul Shaw- “We are sitting here in a car by the Old Grist Mill talking with Charlie Pratt, or Daniel. Which do you prefer?”
Charley- “Daniel C., “That’s my right name”
Paul Shaw- “You remember the mill when it was here?”
Charley- “Yes I remember when it was running, and Steve Sanborn worked in the mill for a number of years.”
Paul Shaw- “Did he work in the mill when my father (Lewis Shaw) ran the mill?”
Charley- “No he worked with John (Shaw), your grandfather . He (Lewis) ran it for awhile, then he moved to Warner and then I guess he (Steve Sanborn) ran it under John.”
Paul Shaw- “Were the farmers still bringing in grain in those days, or was it all hauled from freight cars (from the west)?”
Charley- “They did some. They use to bring in past and whole corn and grind it and regrind it –there were three grinders in the mill and one (drive wheel) they used to run the (grain) elevator. There was another grinder, but I never see it go. But the other one I did. Steve used to put—-on the rim then he’d tell me to keep back away from it—-It would jump and kick and jump back-go off like lightening.”
Paul Shaw- “Did you ever remember a saw mill that was part of this place?”
Charley- “No I don’t. They claim there was, and one on the other end, but I don’t know anything about that either.”
Paul Shaw- “Was the mill run right up until my grandfather died ?” (1921)
Charley- “I thing Steve or Lewis ran it for a wile after John died. Steve Sanborn, he left and went to work down at Stratton’s down to Penacook.— He (Lewis) ran it a while then he moved to Warner, and that ws the end of a mill being here”. (actually Lewis moved to Warner in 1912, John Shaw died in 1921. This conversation has not settled the question of when the mill closed or who ran it at the end).”
Paul Shaw- “Is there anything in particular you remember about the mill? Did you play any games or raise any deviltry?”
Charley- “Oh, Fred Sargent and Guy Gookin on rainy days would get up around the store (presumably Dunlap Store West Salisbury) and post office and down around the mill. Bern Dunlap—-”
Paul Shaw- “How was the fishing around the mill?”
Charley- “Pretty good. We’d get bass here in the deep water.”
——-
Paul Shaw- “You’ve climbed the mountain (Kearsarge) a few times from this side?”
Charley- “Oh, Lord. yes. If you count since the hurricane of ’38, That one was on the east side. There were some spruce in there and it leveled it awful. I went through it and got back to —, I used to walk over to Mill Brook and follow it up, or go up over Mission Ridge and hit the toll road and follow it up. I took you up there one time.”
Paul Shaw- “We went by what you said was an old logging camp and that was run by a man that had some buffalo.”
Charley- “Maybe a Morrison and he may have had a team of buffalo, I don’t know.”
Paul Shaw- “Do you know about anybody floating logs down the river to Burbank Mills?” (located in Webster NH Historic marker #4)
Charley- “No I don’t. They did apparently. I know Charlie (?) worked for Charles Prince. Charles Prince was sawing and Charley dogged a log into the mill and forgot to take the chain off it. Charles stepped in he was a swearing and started after hm. He started after him across the bridge and chased him into the house and locke the door.”
Paul Shaw- “I didn’t catch what happened. Tell me again.”
Charley- ” It happenned pulling logs in from the river. You had to pull them in with a chain. Apparently, he didn’t unhook the chain and the chain went right in with the log”.
Paul Shaw- “The chain hit the saw?”
Charley- “Yes”.
Paul Shaw- “I can see who a guy would get mad when that happened.”
Charley- “That happens sometimes today. They hit metal from the logs when—had a mill up on the mountain. The artillery (in the 30’s the 172nd NG field artillery from Manchester) would fire up there (on side of the mountain)and now and then they’d strike a piece of one of those shells and those (saw) teeth would go flying, and you’d have to get a whole new set of teeth.”
Post note by webmaster regarding the 172nd NG field artillery:
A notable event each summer from 1928 to 1937 was the encampment of the 172nd Field Artillery of the National Guard in Sawyers Field on Little Hill.
Fred Adams
Excerpts from an Interview by Paul S. Shaw, MD.
Date: Feb. 1989
Place: Fred’s House, Salisbury
Published in They Said It In Salisbury by Paul S. Shaw, MD
Paul Shaw- “You mentioned where dams existed on the river or some small brooks. I think you mentioned seven dam sites that you had located. Can you tell me something about it?”
Fred- “I can’t tell you much about the one up on Mill Brook, I but I know there was one (ed; a clapboard and shingle mill run by one of the early Stevens men) up there. then Prince’s Mill and where your father had his mill.”
Paul Shaw- “These were on the Blackwater River in West Salisbury.”
Fred- “Then there was another dam site coming down the Hensmith Road where you turn to go to Twombly’s. Its on the left side of the road (where Loverin Hill road intersects). I don’t know who was in there or anything about it.”
Paul Shaw- The foundation of that mill is still there.”
Fred- “There are rocks for the dam still there. Then there are two on Beaver Dam Brook, or what ever you want to call it. George Fellows had a shingle mill where they made wooden shingles. And down below, I never found out what they did with the other dam, but there is a big stone dam down there. It’s just off the east side of the power line. I would say the foundation was at least 8-10 feet across the brook. Then there’s one down by Shaw’s millpond where thy used to saw lumber and- ”
Paul Shaw- “Have they run anything there in your day?”
Fred- “I can remember Prince’s Mill running and I can remember your father’s (grist) mill. My grandfather used to take grain up there to have it ground. I can remember Charles Shaw running his mill (off rt 127) down there. I remember seeing the logs there.
When towns started, not just here but all over the state, one of the first things they did was to find a mill site so they could saw logs and grind grain.”
For more on the Mills: The Power of Water